You talked about Mencius being Confucius's most famous student, so I was wondering how long it took him to be considered as such. Was he regarded as one of the best scholars in China during his lifetime, or only after his death?
Mencius was influential during his own lifetime, as he travelled and work basically like a political consultant for rulers until he retired. He also wrote his own book which is extant (the teachings of Confucius have only been passed on as a collection of sayings and short parables that his students compiled).
Mencius was considered more of a prominent scholar than anything else until the 12th century AD, when a philosopher named Zhu Xi included Mencius as one of the four canonical books of Confucianism. (The Analects of Confucius were another one of the four.) From then until the 20th century, Confucius and Mencius were core texts that were memorized as part of the educational curriculum, which led up to the imperial examination and a career as a government official.
You talked little about Zhuangzi, partly because you were running out of time and partly because he was known for only one book. What did Zhuangzi teach? What was his most valuable lesson(s)? Did he differ from Mencius and Confucius greatly?
I also chose to spend less time on Zhuangzi since, as I understand, you covered Laozi earlier, so it made sense to focus more on Confucianism and less on Taoism.
Zhuangzi is, together with Laozi, one of the earliest extant Taoist philosophers. His views are vastly different from those of Confucius. The key difference is that Confucius valued interpersonal harmony, and he considered conformity to social values as key to achieving this, while Zhuangzi valued cosmic harmony, and considered non-conformity to be important. Zhuangzi saw little need for ritual and tradition in and of themselves.
It's really difficult to boil Zhuangzi down to one "most valuable" lesson. I guess probably it'd be this: question everything. Question authority. Question appearances. Question reality.
You told us that Confucius was unable to hold a job with higher officials. If he was found so unfavorable by them, when and how did he become so famous as he is today?
It's not entirely true that Confucius didn't work as a high official. What I meant to say, I think, was that he didn't find work as an official as satisfying as teaching. Here's a story about how he quit, from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius)
"At the age of 53, Confucius rose to the position of Justice Minister (大司寇) in Lu. In Sima Qian's account, the neighboring state of Qi was worried that Lu was becoming too powerful. Qi decided to sabotage Lu's reforms by sending 100 good horses and 80 beautiful dancing girls to the Duke of Lu. The Duke indulged himself in pleasure and did not attend to official duties for three days. Confucius was deeply disappointed and resolved to leave Lu and seek better opportunities, yet to leave at once would expose the misbehavior of the Duke and therefore bring public humiliation to the ruler Confucius was serving. Confucius therefore waited for the Duke to make a lesser mistake. Soon after, the Duke neglected to send to Confucius a portion of the sacrificial meat that was his due according to custom, and Confucius seized upon this pretext to leave both his post and the state of Lu.
After Confucius's resignation, he began a long journey or set of journeys around the small kingdoms of northeast and central China, traditionally including the states of Wei, Song, Chen, and Cai. At the courts of these states, he expounded his political beliefs but did not see them implemented."
After the king of Qin conquered the other warring states and declared himself the first emperor of China, Confucianism was just one of many philosophies taught in intellectual circles, while a different school of philosophy called Legalism formed the basis for government. Contrary to Confucianism, Legalism taught that people are inherently greedy and wicked, and thus an authoritarian government and strict system of punishments is required.
After the overthrow of the Qin dynasty and the establishment of the Han dynasty, Confucianism rose to its current position as the most prominent school of thought.
According to Confucius' teachings, the teacher should be respected with high regards, but who was Confucius' teacher and what did Confucius learn from his teacher that allowed him to develop Confucianism?
This is an excellent question. In one sense, who specifically taught Confucius to read, etc., is lost to history. Even the stories of his early life that do exist are apocryphal and unlikely.
But in another sense, if Confucius were to answer your question, he'd probably say that everyone he met were his teachers. He believed that even the wisest people have something to learn from others, and that learning is a life-long process.
You talked about Mencius being Confucius's most famous student, so I was wondering how long it took him to be considered as such. Was he regarded as one of the best scholars in China during his lifetime, or only after his death?
ReplyDeleteMencius was influential during his own lifetime, as he travelled and work basically like a political consultant for rulers until he retired. He also wrote his own book which is extant (the teachings of Confucius have only been passed on as a collection of sayings and short parables that his students compiled).
DeleteMencius was considered more of a prominent scholar than anything else until the 12th century AD, when a philosopher named Zhu Xi included Mencius as one of the four canonical books of Confucianism. (The Analects of Confucius were another one of the four.) From then until the 20th century, Confucius and Mencius were core texts that were memorized as part of the educational curriculum, which led up to the imperial examination and a career as a government official.
You talked little about Zhuangzi, partly because you were running out of time and partly because he was known for only one book. What did Zhuangzi teach? What was his most valuable lesson(s)? Did he differ from Mencius and Confucius greatly?
ReplyDeleteI also chose to spend less time on Zhuangzi since, as I understand, you covered Laozi earlier, so it made sense to focus more on Confucianism and less on Taoism.
DeleteZhuangzi is, together with Laozi, one of the earliest extant Taoist philosophers. His views are vastly different from those of Confucius. The key difference is that Confucius valued interpersonal harmony, and he considered conformity to social values as key to achieving this, while Zhuangzi valued cosmic harmony, and considered non-conformity to be important. Zhuangzi saw little need for ritual and tradition in and of themselves.
It's really difficult to boil Zhuangzi down to one "most valuable" lesson. I guess probably it'd be this: question everything. Question authority. Question appearances. Question reality.
You told us that Confucius was unable to hold a job with higher officials. If he was found so unfavorable by them, when and how did he become so famous as he is today?
ReplyDeleteIt's not entirely true that Confucius didn't work as a high official. What I meant to say, I think, was that he didn't find work as an official as satisfying as teaching. Here's a story about how he quit, from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius)
Delete"At the age of 53, Confucius rose to the position of Justice Minister (大司寇) in Lu. In Sima Qian's account, the neighboring state of Qi was worried that Lu was becoming too powerful. Qi decided to sabotage Lu's reforms by sending 100 good horses and 80 beautiful dancing girls to the Duke of Lu. The Duke indulged himself in pleasure and did not attend to official duties for three days. Confucius was deeply disappointed and resolved to leave Lu and seek better opportunities, yet to leave at once would expose the misbehavior of the Duke and therefore bring public humiliation to the ruler Confucius was serving. Confucius therefore waited for the Duke to make a lesser mistake. Soon after, the Duke neglected to send to Confucius a portion of the sacrificial meat that was his due according to custom, and Confucius seized upon this pretext to leave both his post and the state of Lu.
After Confucius's resignation, he began a long journey or set of journeys around the small kingdoms of northeast and central China, traditionally including the states of Wei, Song, Chen, and Cai. At the courts of these states, he expounded his political beliefs but did not see them implemented."
After the king of Qin conquered the other warring states and declared himself the first emperor of China, Confucianism was just one of many philosophies taught in intellectual circles, while a different school of philosophy called Legalism formed the basis for government. Contrary to Confucianism, Legalism taught that people are inherently greedy and wicked, and thus an authoritarian government and strict system of punishments is required.
After the overthrow of the Qin dynasty and the establishment of the Han dynasty, Confucianism rose to its current position as the most prominent school of thought.
According to Confucius' teachings, the teacher should be respected with high regards, but who was Confucius' teacher and what did Confucius learn from his teacher that allowed him to develop Confucianism?
ReplyDeleteThis is an excellent question. In one sense, who specifically taught Confucius to read, etc., is lost to history. Even the stories of his early life that do exist are apocryphal and unlikely.
DeleteBut in another sense, if Confucius were to answer your question, he'd probably say that everyone he met were his teachers. He believed that even the wisest people have something to learn from others, and that learning is a life-long process.